Upstream or Downstream

Appetite driven obesity or hunger driven obesity? why not both, the mild cases have one or the other, we extremes have both.

When hunger strikes we eat, but it is easier to not eat with hunger as the driver than with cravings as the driver. When cravings strike we have little choice but eat or refocus, resist, go away. Either way, we are eating too much.

http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.ca/2012/10/skirting-around-leptin.html

Danish volunteers who are paid to overeat spike insulin from 35pmol/l to 74pmol/l in just three days. Mice with zero leptin overeat massively, but do not show the same insulin spike. The insulin spike signifies insulin resistance, that characteristic antioxidant defence response to an excess of calories in the metabolic milieu. This does not happen with the early overeating phase of ob/ob mice. They are in metabolic caloric deficit, which they make up by eating enough to remain vaguely functional.

Absolute leptin deficiency appears to be a very harsh driver of fat storage. Losing this many calories makes you hungry. I guess some bit of the brain is involved in converting this state of actual calorie deficit in to a feeling of hunger, but that's not what interests me nearly as much as what is happening at the adipocyte level of calorie storage.

So what does all this mean? Do not eat no mater what, and when your ass falls off, oh well. Set carbs as low as practical, proteins as low as practical, fats as low as practical, and we should lose weight. Right? but some of us do not, so we need to cut further. Into hunger and craving territory. But hunger is relieved with just a little food. It is those cravings that cause the problem.

Assorted stuff

Note that a study was cancelled after 11 years. 45 to 70 years olds, one group were told to diet and exercise, harassed about diet and exercise, many DM t2, and the other group was just monitored. The group with just monitoring did better. Could this say the diet advices was wrong?

http://stan-heretic.blogspot.ca/2012/10/diabetes-low-caloric-diet-and-exercise.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/20/health/in-study-weight-loss-did-not-prevent-heart-attacks-in-diabetics.html?_r=1

added later http://thelowcarbdiabetic.blogspot.ca/2012/10/eat-less-move-more-have-your-heart.html

Perhaps the diet advice should be eat fats. Not to much. Do not eat processed food, sugar, grains, seed oils, exorphins. But then they and the subjects would need to figure out what was in the food. Oh dear, the fear of learning, study, effort, change, confusion, fear of mathematics (Arithmophobia), etc.  They would need a ten dollar food scales, and a six dollar calculator, and a two dollar note pad. The cost!! The time!! (less TV) and the cost eating real food (less than processed food), but the cooking!!

Well on Saturday night, I went out and had a Chief salad that had a big bunch or cheese and processed meats. I lost weight before eating those, so although I expected some exorphins, I though it would be tolerable. What I could do just a few years ago, I cannot now. Is it the clean eating or just age and growing sensitivity? The craving came back sever.

Age increasing sensitivity and increasing sensitivity due to reduced intake are both expected. It is like the other side of Bernstein's law of  small numbers, the effect of a standard dose is larger if the halibut level is less, that is to say 1 in 4 is 25%, 1 in 20 is 5%, but one is the standard dose and 4 or 20 the halibut use level. Age it's self  will have an effect, but how does one seperate the two?

Ban Exorphins

I am at peace with the world, as I look out into the falling snow, between me and the spruce trees, on this gray day. I know that we obese and exobese are just the canaries in the world, the leading edge of what is to come with the obesity endemic. We are the most sensitive to exorphins. The toe of the bell curve, Normal distribution, while the overweight are the middle of the curve and the thin just the other toe.

I am willing to do what is necessary today to overcome this issue, that is to not intake any processed food, wheat, or dairy products. A paleoish diet, or low carb, Maffetone, Harcombe, or even No White, or Pre 1900, any of those go along way as they are very low in exorphins. It is those mad food sciences, and the flavour enhancers that make clear the solution: Avoid all exorphins, natural and manufactured. These are appetite stimulus, and drive the chemical addiction or addiction like process that is at the root of the problem. Sugar and wheat are the two big that firsts must go. Insulin and blood sugar deal downstream, and may also provide a driver.

Harcombe has advantages in not combining fat and carbohydrates make each not very palatable, just foods.

I could call myself an obesity recovery researcher, and carry on writing, but I see willingness to follow a low exorphin diet for the remainder of my life is something that will require work, but I can do it for today. I have identified my problem. I know my solution, now all that is required is that I test it for a long time on myself, and sell the idea to others.

Overeating may also produces exorphins. There is suggestion of this in several places, but nobody has stated that yet. Oh well, more research needed.

Exorphins and endorphins drive appetite. That is the key piece. We cannot do much about endorphins, but elimination of exorphins is the first step.

Exogenous opioid peptides, gluten exorphins A5 and B5, drive postprandial insulin level up in animals  and is assumed to do so in human. On individuals tested, it does. But to really be sure, we would need to do a big study. Is this why background insulin levels have historically increased on average, since we have been able to measure them? I will suggest that that is the cause.

Exorphin Issue

Endorphins are natural produced internal "like" signals, and signal the desire for more. The receptors become damped with use, and take time to clear. While the receptors are damped, it takes more to reach the same level of sanitisation.

Enter exorphins, the foreign source of equivalent to endorphins, all the receptors know is we like, we want more. Our food intake becomes instantly in excess of need. Our food intake is being encouraged beyond our need, by the exorphins. We soon start to store fat, and the insulin driven storage starts. We begin to overeat because we are getting fat, in-addition to the exorphin driven desire.

The repair is to remove all (most) exorphins from our food intake. A1 - caseins, and gladin peptide are two of the naturally occurring exorphins. But wait, the food science guys saw another use of these, to increase sales. These are being used as flavour enhancers, and are being added to processed food and even "pink slime", aka finely ground meats. Therefore any processed meat, any processed food will likely have exorphins to encourage consumption.

Where does this leave us? No processed foods, whole food diet, harcome, Paleo, low carb or not.

No SGO6EE

No sugar, grains, omega 6 oils, exorphins, endocannabinoids is a mouthful so I simply say No SGO6EE.

Each part of the list has specific reasons to leave these out of the diet. Sugar in the simplest is empty calories, without any nutritional value, but that is not all. Sugar is one glucose bonded to one fructose molecule. It is split by an enzyme found in the saliva, and absorbed in the mouth, esophagus, stomach, and upper intestine, at a rate up to 20 grams per minute. It does not hang around, when it is free, it just gets absorbed.

Fructose goes to the liver, little gets past. Blood concentration in namograms per litre, namomoles per litre,( atomic weight 180). It is converted into glycogen, up to perhaps 100C worth, and then into saturated fats. It causes insulin to lock in the fat, and some insulin to be generated, some think. 

The glucose goes to the liver after absorption, and passes through, the pancreases releases insulin, and the fat cells soak up the blood glucose like mad. The blood only carries perhaps 1 gram, so it is being soaked up almost as fast as it goes in. In the fat cell, it is converted to saturated fat for storage.

Now we have to go through the hunger stage, get insulin low, burn the livers stores of glycogen, before we can get to that fat to burn it. Sugar, in any quantity is not a good diet food. Having said that, a couple of grams per hour may help stabilize blood sugar, in some cases. (see R Bernstein, 2 gram solution in the Diabetes Solution).

Sugar and its more evil twin, HFCS, high fructose corn syrup, what ever it is called, along with those other names for the glucose fructose stuff, is essentially wonderful tasting poison once it is separated from fibre. Fibre slows digestion a bit. 

The poison is in the dose. Do not eat poison if you can avoid it. and for the who missed them, here is a list of videos http://philosophyofweightmanagement.blogspot.ca/p/links.html

     

     

Stalls

http://kindkehealthnotes.blogspot.ca/2012/10/starvation-induced-apoptosis.html

After we get rid of the causes of overeating, No SGO6EE, it is totally calories, and mainly fat calories, since we should be about 280 C of protein, and less than 200 C of carbs. Now that is not to say 3500C/pound of fat, but that number varies from person to person, by a about 25%. (see K. Hall), but for me the weight loss once slightly ketonic was direct relation to calories for about 1 year, at an average loss of about 5 kg/month. Then I quit monitoring and gained.     

I tested myself at about 600 C/day for a few days. After a few days of a fast, my volitional energy  really dropped. I could not get myself to exert myself, but could walk. I think it is the voluntary portion that drops. And if we feel like doing less, we do less.

When I was weighing food and computing calories on all foods with a CD greater than 0.1 C/gm, the stalls were explained with just calories. Without computing calories with CD and a scales, consumption can be +30% of estimated. Fat is the hardest to estimate. It leaks out of food and stays on the plate, in cooking utensils, and similar. It is difficult to get enough without dairy and seed oils.

eating / overeating

http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.ca/2012/10/why-do-we-eat-neurobiological_13.html Another one looking at a fine tree in the forest, but is one of the small ones. The penny has yet to drop. http://itsthesatiety.com/2012/10/12/acellular-carbohydrates-as-a-critical-concept/#comment-461

Stephan:

What drives me to eat?

• Hunger
• Hunger, gnawing
• Good tasting poisons --- Reward Theory 

What drives me to overeat?

• "munches" -- endocannabinoids and exocannabinoids
• Excessive appetite --- Exorphins in addition to endorphins
• Carbohydrate addiction like --- insulin resistance / energy partitioning / high insulin, glucose locked in storage, not available
• Compulsion

Solution: Remove overeating; 

• no endocannabinoid components, (glucoses, omega 6 oils); 
• No exorphins, wheat, barley, rye, cheese, butter, dairy, chocolate, alcohol; 
• LCHF
• Schwartz  

but what do I know. I am only down 50+ kgs, and struggling to hold.

Perverseness is the key to recovery process / maintenance.

You can play around with the causes of eating all you want, but that is a very minor part of the problem. You go ahead and understand the little pieces. You can set as many dead end paths as you like.

The first step is a philosophical change that allows recovery, and then following a diet that this human body can follow day in and out until recovery arrives.

In an earlier exchange you told me that it is your reward theory that drives us, and it may be at the root, but reward theory is a negative term, and it suggests that we have control. No one I know has control of the munches when they strike. You can sell research all you want, but you are not part of the solution to my obesity problem. You may be part of the understanding as to why rat get fat, but not part of my obesity solution yet. It must be expressed in positive actions before it is of use to me.  Anyone has the right to believe any idiotic thing they want. Good bye.

Spreadbury

http://itsthesatiety.com/2012/10/12/acellular-carbohydrates-as-a-critical-concept/ got me going. It is not a single cause that brought about the obesity, but a combination.

When I read http://www.drjaywortman.com/blog/wordpress/2012/07/09/i-urge-you-to-read-this-paper/ back in the summer, I read http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3402009/ and concluded that acellular carbohydrate was a good term to describe the sugar, grains, and manufactured editable carbage available everywhere.

But all that ignores the other problems, the change in philosophy necessary for recovery and those other problems. A quote that got me going follows:

”If Spreadbury is right, the obesity solution is straightforward.”

is just so wrong I don’t know where to start.

My comments:

But, but…. when we know the solution, and live the solution, it all seems so simple…. Essentially, the solution is a Paleo-ist diet, perhaps even low carb paleo template, no exorphins, no acellular carbohydrate, no endocannabinoids components… simple… not easy. For a individual to take up the life style,- a philosophical change must happen -, if they have the desire, interest, energy, it works. For society as a whole, not so easy. In reality, the lifestyle must be sold to the individuals, one at a time.

It is the philosophical change that must first happen to be able to follow a LCHF paleo food plan. Without that, it will not work. Willingness to follow, willingness to believe without argument, the willingness to become teachable, are essential. Addressing just acellular carbohydrates is only one of the obesity issues. Appetite stimulation from exorphins is a big one as well, as is those pesty endocannabinoids over stimulation of “the munchies” are seperate issues. The only way is to understand these and have the philosophical change necessary for recovery to a near normal weight.

We need to test it on ourselves, and see what actually works. Enough fat intake to avoid hunger is difficult when all that is available is lean meat. Big issue. We need enough fat, and not so much protein. Bacon sort of ratios, protein to fat. We need to be mellow enough to avoid resentments, stress, and agitation. For today philosophy can help. Day tight compartments, and part day tight compartments, to avoid spill over of work issues into the evening and next day, a Carnegie concept, is useful. Remaining teachable is another big one, yet fixed in attitude enough to understand what others are saying without adapting. 

We also need enough fat until our insulin decreases, to avoid the second level gnawing hunger that does not go away. The first stage hunger goes away.  There are many things that I have learned in this weight struggle. Some day I should put all these together, as Jimmy Moore has, and I would need to add a few more. We stand on the shoulders of those who have gone before.

No Answer to Diet Question

Why is easier to cut 1000 calories for a day than 100? Duh, This does not make sense, not logical but I appears to be true.

Could it be that 1000 calorie cut is enough to get below insulin secretion level to where fat is released quickly, regardless of what we eat. Since I am reach stabilization at about 1600 C/day, 1000 cut does not leave much.

Canola Oil

Some of the canola oil is better than cheap olive oil. There is issues with olive oil being diluted and extended because it is a scarce commodity.  Canola oil, on the other hand is in search of more markets, especially the chemical extracted variety's.

Eatable canola oil from cold press is more reliable good than olive oil we buy at the supermarket. To test your oil, just keep it in the fridge. Mono will pour, pufa will not. Sorry, Other way around, eat the solids simple. Test before you yelp. Some is good, some less so, just like olive oil off the shelf. Consider Harvest Gold.

But using the fridge my be unreliable as Harvest Gold canola oil does not seperate, but becomes jelly like, viscous, at lower temperature.

http://tesspaleojourney.blogspot.ca/2012/10/processed-aint-problem.html

and sharma on chioce http://www.drsharma.ca/is-obesity-the-worst-choice-a-person-can-make.html , he understand but does not belief in low carb as a partial solution.

Follow Jimmy, after the rules.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canola

Jimmy Learned

http://www.carbsmart.com/my-5-low-carb-mistakes-and-how-nutritional-ketosis-rescued-me.html

I already knew too much protein did not work well for me.

Not enough fat leads to hunger, but exorphins issue make butter and cheese not a good idea. It takes effort to get enough fat. Bacon fried greens with lard for lunch.

I tried the urine strip, but gave up with pinks.

Too much food is always a problem. In my most successful weight loss period, I was having coffee for breakfast, a side salad for lunch with Strange Range Thousand Islands (Jimmy was the cook), and either a chief salad or chicken Caesar for supper. I was also so busy that there was no time to think. Such was life on the road at that time... building road in the north.

Blood sugar should stabilize with any low carb diet, but maybe I do eat to much sugars. Aka ketchup, HP sauce. 

Thanks Jimmy, for reminding me of those lessons.

and artificial sweetners
http://www.dietdoctor.com/is-pepsi-max-bad-for-your-weight

note wolf

More evidence it is all chemical

http://robbwolf.com/2012/10/05/serotonin-deficiency-food-cravings

Should one be in taking any tea?

Glycation is forever

Glycation is forever    http://www.wheatbellyblog.com/2012/10/safe-sex-on-weekends-only/ make the point clear. Keep that blood glucose low by not eating high carb foods, grains, sugar, etc.

endocannabinoid

http://www.drsharma.ca/hindsight-upregulation-of-adipose-tissue-endocannabinoid-system.html

http://evolutionarypsychiatry.blogspot.ca/2012/09/omega-6-obesity-and-endocannabinoids.html

"In short, omega 6 fats are made into natural endocannabinoids, our own happy cannabis compounds. Smoking a ton of weed is associated with: hanging out listlessly on a couch in one's parents' basement watching Yo Gabba Gabba AND the munchies."

.... So it it our fat that makes us have the munchies ? .... a vicious circle, once we become heavy? .... is oil and fat consumption the easy way out ... Shangri-La Diet ... http://www.webmd.com/diet/features/shangri-la-diet 

After Hunger

If we were designing a energy system to run on either fresh fuel or on stored fuel, before switching to stored, it would call for more fresh fuel. Failing to find more fresh fuel, it would start to switch to stored, while finishing the fresh fuel. It would also start to conserve energy. There is one more twist, short term storage of some rich fuel for quick stoking. This would also start to depleat a bit first, before switching to store.

This implies that before we can expect to burn fat, to any large amount, we need first to pass through hunger. This is not consistent with the "hungry? then eat" concept of today. In the previous times, it was "hungry? to bad, wait until dinner" or the next meal. Not only do we to pass through hunger, but we also need to use up a bit of glycogen. Hunger is just fuel signalling. We should treat it as such, rather than something to avoid.

Do seemingly small changes in philosophy add up to obesity of today? (together with abundance, salesmanship of the food industry, new novel food products, etc.)

commercial prepared foods

I was out yesterday, and the day got away from me... long... time for lunch. So I wheeled into Safeway, got a bit of beef and bean salad... reasonable lunch... or so I thought. An hour later I was ravenously hungry... WTF.

Well, I have been eating fresh vegs and protein for lunch, so I did not think the quantities were out to much. But hunger what, not enough fat? but is it the sugar in bean salad?

It was about 150 grams, slightly more than a cup. Now how much sugar could it have? If we take sugar and vinegar and make a paste about as thick as the drippings, it is mostly sugar. So that is what is going on. Sugar and vinegar, not good for the diet or hunger.

I note that glucose and fructose can be absorbed at the rate of about 10 to 12 grams per minute... duh... that is 5 to 6 complete blood glucose exchanges, Sugar is 50% glucose, about 1 gram of glucose in the blood, so it is leaving the blood equally as fast. That take a lot of insulin. So when the sugar runs out, there is excess insulin, but why does it last so long?

No more prepared foods for me.

The other issue is doing a project that I have no interest in is not good. No enthusiasm makes the day long. Oh well, this could be the last of those, and it will soon be finished. Now what?

I thought when I retired, I would have lots to keep me busy, but along with the work went the desire to do much. Not what I expected. Today, I just do not care to do anything.

Banexorphin

Banexorphin ... sounds like an organization dedicated to the removal of exorphin from the human food chain.

Exorphins are one of the primary causes of the obesity epidemic. There are being concentrated and added to processes food products right here in River City.  Yup, processed meat products. How about that.